Desyat negrityat

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PrinceAzure33
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Post by PrinceAzure33 »

Yeah I saw the page. It's a real good price but I'm going to save it for a rainy day.
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Post by CluedoKid »

I found lovely high-definition photos of three of the characters:

Judge Wargrave:

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He doesn't look as I would picture him but he played an excellent performance as a psychotically stern man. If I had one critisim, he was too relaxed. Nonetheless, he was still a very unnerving character.

General MacArthur:
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In my opinion, he pulled the best performance in look and character. His monologe about Leslie is downright creepy, the last shot you see of him alive is him with a creepy knowing half-grin on his face. When you see him later, he is on the ground with a bloody head.

Vera Claythorne
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Out of all the movie versions, Tatanya Drubitch played the best Vera ever. She was also the most beautiful in my opinion. Her performance wasn't as wooden as to the likes of Shirley Eaton or Elke Sommer.
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Pics

Post by Lord Caspen »

Thanks, Cluedokid! Those pics are wonderful.
It's discouraging to think how many people are shocked by honesty and how few by deceit. -- Blithe Spirit, Noel Coward.

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Post by CluedoKid »

Thank you! I personally didn't take them.

Lord Capsen, you should consider getting the movie, I heartly recommend it. The cast is brilliant and the setting is clausterphobic. Everybody manages to shine, and it is one of my all time favourite movies albeit it's Russian. I refuse to watch it in subtitles anymore because I know the story and I find the subs distracting.

You can probably find it on Ebay.

One thing to mention, they changed around with the killer's motive a bit, here's his new motive:


Judge Wargrave murders them because he was sick of how afowl the justice system has become. He is not trying to commit the perfect murder but more or less he is trying to bring out the guilt in everyone and give then the proper exicution. Thus, he is no longer trying to make an unsolvable mystery but really trying to punish off people who escaped the law. The movie ends with him burning his robe and wig to symbolise his resignment from the bench. He then sits in the chair and and his voice monologes his confession with flashbacks. The last lines in the movie:

Wargrave: "As my work draws to a close I will prepare to punish the highest power a Judge can punish: HIMSELF"

the music swells to something so terrible and haunting as he draws the gun up to his temple.

BANG.

Fade out, credits roll in silence.



What a wonderful ending.
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Lord Caspen
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Movie

Post by Lord Caspen »

An excelelnt ending, indeed.

How is the setting in that movie, the house in particular? Does it match the book fairly well, or is it just a comfortable mansion?
It's discouraging to think how many people are shocked by honesty and how few by deceit. -- Blithe Spirit, Noel Coward.

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Post by CluedoKid »

The house isn't as modern as the book would state, actually quite the opposite of the book. It is wooden paneled and creeky, and fairly small conpared to the giant castles of the earlier versions.
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The House

Post by Lord Caspen »

Yes, I envision a masterpiece of Art Deco, rather starker and a little bit larger than the house in the game, though the game was likeable in its way.

I tried to get the movie through Netflix, but they're only carrying two versions of the movie: the very first one, And Then There Were None with Barry Fitzgerald as the Judge, and the 1965 version, with Wilfrid Hyde White.
It's discouraging to think how many people are shocked by honesty and how few by deceit. -- Blithe Spirit, Noel Coward.

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Post by CluedoKid »

I haven't seen the 1945 version. But I've seen the 1965 version. It wasn't bad. Despite the awful idea of axeing Brent, I enjoyed Ilona. The Mountain setting wasn't bad either.


I heard the 1975 version was the most guilty of chopping up the story like Rogers in the shed.

I also envision the house an Art Deco master peice.

Any other questions regarding the Russian film?
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Movie

Post by Lord Caspen »

I don't think so.

I'm going to be getting the film, I think.
It's discouraging to think how many people are shocked by honesty and how few by deceit. -- Blithe Spirit, Noel Coward.

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Post by CluedoKid »

Excellent! You will enjoy it.


One thing I liked was that Dr. Armstrong dumped the silly, *faking to be a tee-totaller persona* and acts more as he should in the book.
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Aha!

Post by Lord Caspen »

Brilliant!

I think that works so much better. I think the other versions want the audience to feel unsympathetic about everybody except Lombard and Vera. Then, when the showdown comes between Vera and the killer, there is a genuine moral question posed to the audience:

"Sure, this is a murderer we're talking about, but after all, didn't the other people deserve to die? Weren't they just awful?"

But I think that misses the point of the story. People should be saying to themselves, "Yes, they're all murderers, but do they deserve to be murdered?"

If Armstrong has made a genuine reform to resist drinking, an argument could be made that he's gone a long way, personally, towards paying his debt. If he's an unrepentant hypocrite, as in the 1945, 1965, 1976, and 1989 versions of the film, and in the game, then no such argument can be made.
It's discouraging to think how many people are shocked by honesty and how few by deceit. -- Blithe Spirit, Noel Coward.

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Post by CluedoKid »

That's for sure!!

Perhaps you will also be pleased to know that Blore is no longer the fat bumbling comic relief in the other versions.

I will also point out that he pretends to be Mr. Davis in this one.

Blore is now a slim, cigarette smoking, hard faced, squint-eyed unimaginative man who has his duo moments with Lombard as they tend to see eye to eye yet they rival each other. At one point (after Rodger's death) Blore makes a bet with Lombard on who will out live each other. Lombard replys saying, if he dies, then how will he get his bet payment? Classic.
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The Movie

Post by Lord Caspen »

Well!

It finally got here! I ordered it on E-bay, and it got here and I watched it almost immediately. Yes, the subtitles are terrible, but the acting is pretty good, and there were some really good artistic choices made by director or producers.

I did not care, however, for their version of Miss Brent. The characterizations of the actress weren't bad, but I hated her costume choices, mostly because they made her look rich. The whole concept of the character of the book is that her family once had money, but as far as I can make out, even then they dressed simply. There weren't flaunters -- as far as they were concerned that would have been neither Christian nor English.


Also, am I alone in thinking Lombard and Blore look nearly identical?


And lastly, though this is even more minor than Blore and Lombard looking alike: my ideal General is a weak man. Frail in spirit, if not necessarily in body. The General of this flick still looked too energetic, too healthy.


Overall, though, a really well-made movie, and does great justice to the book which all other versions seemed to have mostly ignored.
It's discouraging to think how many people are shocked by honesty and how few by deceit. -- Blithe Spirit, Noel Coward.

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Re: The Movie

Post by CluedoKid »

Lord Caspen wrote:Well!

It finally got here! I ordered it on E-bay, and it got here and I watched it almost immediately. Yes, the subtitles are terrible, but the acting is pretty good, and there were some really good artistic choices made by director or producers.


I certainly agree!


I did not care, however, for their version of Miss Brent. The characterizations of the actress weren't bad, but I hated her costume choices, mostly because they made her look rich. The whole concept of the character of the book is that her family once had money, but as far as I can make out, even then they dressed simply. There weren't flaunters -- as far as they were concerned that would have been neither Christian nor English.

Her costumes were off, and there were too many boas, but I didn't feel it took away from the character in any way. Just a little bit of artistic license. Do you think she was better or worse than some of the other Brents?

Also, am I alone in thinking Lombard and Blore look nearly identical?

I didn't think so. Their costumes were similar yes, but Blore had red hair and looked almost bald from a distance, his face was squintier. Lombard has a lightish blond chestnut hair and his face was more wolfish with his eyes set more apart.


And lastly, though this is even more minor than Blore and Lombard looking alike: my ideal General is a weak man. Frail in spirit, if not necessarily in body. The General of this flick still looked too energetic, too healthy.


Actually, The General was my favourite performance in the film. I didn't think he was TOO healthy. At least his stength, mentality, and leadership skills were as overdeveloped than shall we say the likes of Leo Genn.


Overall, though, a really well-made movie, and does great justice to the book which all other versions seemed to have mostly ignored.

Well said.
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Re: The Movie

Post by Lord Caspen »

Cluedokid,

Her costumes were off, and there were too many boas, but I didn't feel it took away from the character in any way. Just a little bit of artistic license. Do you think she was better or worse than some of the other Brents?

As for the other Brents ... the closest, and still the one to beat all, to date, was Dame Judith Andrews, from the 1940's version. She could have been a little steelier, and the script incorrectly had her responsible for the death of her nephew, but the look was perfect, and her cold attempts at charm were just about right. She just shouldn't have been quite so charming, or even tried to be quite so much. As to comparing Desyat Emily to the others ... she's not quite as good as Dame Judith, but I think right under. The others, most of whom weren't even a Miss Brent at all, don't really even deserve to be in the same category as these two.


A friend of mine, named Pavlina, played Miss Brent recently in the same production in which I played Tony Marston. I appreciated the character she had, but the director never really took a hand with her, so she was just a little scattered, and in any case Pavlina's idea for the character was that she was rich, and liked dressing in all black and fur. Just not right. I'd say it's a close call between her and Desyat's Emily.


I didn't think so. Their costumes were similar yes, but Blore had red hair and looked almost bald from a distance, his face was squintier. Lombard has a lightish blond chestnut hair and his face was more wolfish with his eyes set more apart.

I know what you mean ... I guess not, for the most part, but there's this one shot, at the very least, where they do. It's in the dining room, while they're all discussing why they've been brought to the island. It's -- I think -- Marston, Lombard, and Blore in the shot, and Lombard and Blore are standing right next to each other, and they look like twins. It's eerie.


Actually, The General was my favourite performance in the film. I didn't think he was TOO healthy. At least his stength, mentality, and leadership skills were as overdeveloped than shall we say the likes of Leo Genn.


On reflection, you've got a point. And *beep*, yes, he was a darn sight better than Leo Genn, in the aspect of health. And there is such a thing as being too frail. Sir C. Aubrey Smith, of the 1940's version just edged slightly into that category. There should be enough guts left to bluster importantly after the record, and to act as a father-figure to Vera at that same time, but not enough energy to do any more than that, and he's haunted by memories of a love he smothered and never fully knew.

Wilford Brimley I think would be a good candidate for an American version, as long as he played him senile. I don't know a lot of English actors -- couldn't place him on that side of the water.


Anyway, it seems we are mostly in agreement. Right on.
It's discouraging to think how many people are shocked by honesty and how few by deceit. -- Blithe Spirit, Noel Coward.

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Re: The Movie

Post by CluedoKid »

All excellent points Lord C.!


About Miss Brent. As I have not seen the 1945 movie yet, the Russian Brent for me is still the one to beat. Regarding And Ten There Were None however,I hate how they changed her past as you say, but I seen Judith's picture in the movie and she looks quite acceptable. Actually I quite liked the look of Miss Brent in this movie as well, and don't forget that perhaps Russians may have a different interpretation of a Righteous Christian than we would. I rather liked the short blonde hair and glasses because it suited nicely. I thought that it was her acting that made her a good performance, because her coldness is quite similar to the book.


One thing to note however that somebody on a different forum brought up that Miss Brent ought to have been older. I guess Miss Brent in Desyat Negrityat was quite young and pretty, relatively speaking for the most part.
In the book I always got a sense that she was frail, but here she isn't. She is quite agile to chuck a Bible. Perhaps I only think she is frail because the Judge poisons her before he kills her.


In anycase, didn't Miss Brents scream before she is killed give you the chills?



On a last note, what did you think of the other characters like Dr. Armstrong, Judge Wargrave, Vera Claythorne, Capt. Lombard,Det. Blore, Mr. Marston, and the Rogerses?
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Characters

Post by Lord Caspen »

Cluedokid,
Cluedokid25 wrote:All excellent points Lord C.!
Thanks!

About Miss Brent. As I have not seen the 1945 movie yet, the Russian Brent for me is still the one to beat. Regarding And Ten There Were None however,I hate how they changed her past as you say, but I seen Judith's picture in the movie and she looks quite acceptable. Actually I quite liked the look of Miss Brent in this movie as well, and don't forget that perhaps Russians may have a different interpretation of a Righteous Christian than we would. I rather liked the short blonde hair and glasses because it suited nicely. I thought that it was her acting that made her a good performance, because her coldness is quite similar to the book.

One thing to note however that somebody on a different forum brought up that Miss Brent ought to have been older. I guess Miss Brent in Desyat Negrityat was quite young and pretty, relatively speaking for the most part.
In the book I always got a sense that she was frail, but here she isn't. She is quite agile to chuck a Bible. Perhaps I only think she is frail because the Judge poisons her before he kills her.


In anycase, didn't Miss Brents scream before she is killed give you the chills?
It was very good!

On a last note, what did you think of the other characters like Dr. Armstrong, Judge Wargrave, Vera Claythorne, Capt. Lombard,Det. Blore, Mr. Marston, and the Rogerses?
Armstrong I liked. Making him a smoker was an interesting choice -- pipe smoker at that. And a piano player to boot! Gave him, if not necessarily depth, then at least some new facets which made him more interesting.

One bit of business I am *so* glad they worked into the movie was the bit after Wargrave drops the drugs into her coffee -- and she gets hauled up into a chair, and Armstrong offers her something to steady her nerves and she bursts out, "NO!" And Armstrong just wanders away, incensed and embarassed, but unable to say anything and the guy played the moment beautifully.


Blore was likable. I liked Stanley Holloway, of the 60's version better, but he should have pretended to be Mr. Davis, first. That Blore wasn't as Blore is described in the book -- who is smaller, more pinched, and mustached, like the one in the '45 movie, but to me, while that Blore is fine, I like the more lumbering, bear-like image that Stanely Holloway gives us. The heavy voice, the heavy face and heavy gestures. It goes along with his brutal worldview, and his heavy-handed technique of interrogation.

This Blore was an excellent turn. Right shape, right manner. If anything, he was almost too clever, but that may just be a knee-jerk reaction to his not being Stanley-Holloway-slow. After all, I do think Blore shouldn't be stupid, as he was when Gert Frobe played him in the 70's. But, and maybe it was just the Russian words with English subtitles, but there was no disparity in the Russian flick between Lombard's quick, cold intelligence and Blore's plodding he'll-get-there-eventually-ness. Or rather, there was some, but I would have liked to have been sharper. Lombard has to be somewhat impressive, and rather so by comparison.


Vera was quite good. A little plain, but that works well into the "a bit schoolmistressy perhaps" description that Lombard gives her, in the book. I especially liked her part in the flashbacks, and her final scene with Lombard. I cried out when she kicked out the chair, even though I knew she was going to do it.


Lombard was heavier set than I would have expected, and not quite as cold, as aloof. I expected him to be a lot more terse. He was fine, don't misunderstand me, and he supported the show ably, I just would have liked the character to have been less apparently vulnerable.


Marston was fine. He was given too little to say, and he wasn't very expressive, but his wardrobe, his demeanor, and the lines he did have showed all the truly necessary bits of his character.


The Rogerses were quite suitable. We didn't see enough of Mrs. Rogers, I think, and her maid's outfit was laughable, but perhaps it was period. I just think even if it was period, it was overdoing it rather. But as characters, they were well done.


Finally, Wargrave ... Perfect in nearly every way. He grinned a great deal, and that I found annoying. Also, the gun should be heard firing when Vera screams. Without it, the staging bit between himself and Armstrong seemed a bit obvious (which it does a little, anyway, but it surely doesn't need any help in that way). Also, I would have liked them to work in the part about the oilsilk curtain and the gray wool having gone missing. It just helps the story hang together as a puzzle, instead of merely a gothic deathfest. Yet this actor, getting back to the subject at hand, knew how to deliver coldly, clinically, and with a sense for sticking to fact for the sake of fact.
It's discouraging to think how many people are shocked by honesty and how few by deceit. -- Blithe Spirit, Noel Coward.

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Re: Characters

Post by CluedoKid »

Lord Caspen wrote:Cluedokid,
Cluedokid25 wrote:All excellent points Lord C.!
Thanks!

About Miss Brent. As I have not seen the 1945 movie yet, the Russian Brent for me is still the one to beat. Regarding And Ten There Were None however,I hate how they changed her past as you say, but I seen Judith's picture in the movie and she looks quite acceptable. Actually I quite liked the look of Miss Brent in this movie as well, and don't forget that perhaps Russians may have a different interpretation of a Righteous Christian than we would. I rather liked the short blonde hair and glasses because it suited nicely. I thought that it was her acting that made her a good performance, because her coldness is quite similar to the book.

One thing to note however that somebody on a different forum brought up that Miss Brent ought to have been older. I guess Miss Brent in Desyat Negrityat was quite young and pretty, relatively speaking for the most part.
In the book I always got a sense that she was frail, but here she isn't. She is quite agile to chuck a Bible. Perhaps I only think she is frail because the Judge poisons her before he kills her.


In anycase, didn't Miss Brents scream before she is killed give you the chills?
It was very good!

On a last note, what did you think of the other characters like Dr. Armstrong, Judge Wargrave, Vera Claythorne, Capt. Lombard,Det. Blore, Mr. Marston, and the Rogerses?
Armstrong I liked. Making him a smoker was an interesting choice -- pipe smoker at that. And a piano player to boot! Gave him, if not necessarily depth, then at least some new facets which made him more interesting.

One bit of business I am *so* glad they worked into the movie was the bit after Wargrave drops the drugs into her coffee -- and she gets hauled up into a chair, and Armstrong offers her something to steady her nerves and she bursts out, "NO!" And Armstrong just wanders away, incensed and embarassed, but unable to say anything and the guy played the moment beautifully.


Blore was likable. I liked Stanley Holloway, of the 60's version better, but he should have pretended to be Mr. Davis, first. That Blore wasn't as Blore is described in the book -- who is smaller, more pinched, and mustached, like the one in the '45 movie, but to me, while that Blore is fine, I like the more lumbering, bear-like image that Stanely Holloway gives us. The heavy voice, the heavy face and heavy gestures. It goes along with his brutal worldview, and his heavy-handed technique of interrogation.

This Blore was an excellent turn. Right shape, right manner. If anything, he was almost too clever, but that may just be a knee-jerk reaction to his not being Stanley-Holloway-slow. After all, I do think Blore shouldn't be stupid, as he was when Gert Frobe played him in the 70's. But, and maybe it was just the Russian words with English subtitles, but there was no disparity in the Russian flick between Lombard's quick, cold intelligence and Blore's plodding he'll-get-there-eventually-ness. Or rather, there was some, but I would have liked to have been sharper. Lombard has to be somewhat impressive, and rather so by comparison.


Vera was quite good. A little plain, but that works well into the "a bit schoolmistressy perhaps" description that Lombard gives her, in the book. I especially liked her part in the flashbacks, and her final scene with Lombard. I cried out when she kicked out the chair, even though I knew she was going to do it.


Lombard was heavier set than I would have expected, and not quite as cold, as aloof. I expected him to be a lot more terse. He was fine, don't misunderstand me, and he supported the show ably, I just would have liked the character to have been less apparently vulnerable.


Marston was fine. He was given too little to say, and he wasn't very expressive, but his wardrobe, his demeanor, and the lines he did have showed all the truly necessary bits of his character.


The Rogerses were quite suitable. We didn't see enough of Mrs. Rogers, I think, and her maid's outfit was laughable, but perhaps it was period. I just think even if it was period, it was overdoing it rather. But as characters, they were well done.


Finally, Wargrave ... Perfect in nearly every way. He grinned a great deal, and that I found annoying. Also, the gun should be heard firing when Vera screams. Without it, the staging bit between himself and Armstrong seemed a bit obvious (which it does a little, anyway, but it surely doesn't need any help in that way). Also, I would have liked them to work in the part about the oilsilk curtain and the gray wool having gone missing. It just helps the story hang together as a puzzle, instead of merely a gothic deathfest. Yet this actor, getting back to the subject at hand, knew how to deliver coldly, clinically, and with a sense for sticking to fact for the sake of fact.
One again, you give a very nicely detailed analization of the characters.

Most of your ideas I agree with perfectly.

You cried out when Vera died too? It guess it was that powerful. I loved the artistic shot of the last Negro boy falling from her dead hands and smashing against the chair.

How did you feel about Marston's death? I loved how they made it bloodier than ever with a fatal plunge into his dinner ware. I felt that Vera's cry when he died was a little unconvincing, but only a minor point. I always thought she should of been more in shock, but then again, it's not every day you see a mutilated face.


I too thought that they should of had a gunshot aswell. I think they didn't add it because we were not supposed to know any more than the characters know, so like them, we also fail to hear the shot.

This rule is broken however at the end when Vera doesn't know the Judge is alive but we do.
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Post by CluedoKid »

Here, I made a video of the poem set to the clips from Desyat Negrityat. Enjoy!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RwhjjoKl9Ic
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Post by PeachFreak »

It's spooky.

I like it though. I'm going to add it to my favorites on Youtube once I get the chance.

EDIT: Or not. I guess you removed it. Oh well, I watched it a few times this morning. I remember the book a little bit from a few years ago. You never find out the identity of the murderer, correct? It had to be one of the people on the island, but it couldn't have been any of them. Correct me if I'm wrong.
"Like my daddy always says, give me a good neuromuscular poison any day."

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