Let's Play Clue #14!

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Re: Let's Play Clue #14!

Post by Black »

I didn't show many cards, Priest's Nook was one of mine

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Re: Let's Play Clue #14!

Post by Black »

By the way, there was a reason why I was picking Sir Shamrock for cards, it was simply because he was the last person in the queue to disprove any of my suggestions

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Re: Let's Play Clue #14!

Post by Sir Shamrock »

Yeah I was wondering about that hahaha, hope it helped

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Re: Let's Play Clue #14!

Post by Jonathan Green »

Well good game everyone. I guess I have to write a confession...

“I confess, I confess already! I didn’t mean it, honest! I- I just - she was gonna cancel my book!
When searching through the achieves, I found a certificate for adoption of the Marquess. Turns out he was adopted as a baby, and not an actual blood member of the Maple family. I brought this to the Marchioness in the Billiard Room and she became hysterical. She threatened to cancel my book about the Maple family. I spent my entire life researching about Maple Hall and its masters.
I just lost it. I picked up the Ice Pick and plunged it into her heart! After that, I had to get rid of the body. After I checked the coast was clear, I dragged the Marchioness’ body into the cellar, and left quickly before that Shamrock fellow came.”

Professor Grapes was arrested and charged for the murder of the Marchioness. He plead guilty for and was sentenced to 10 years in prison, with a possibly of parole in 5 years.

—————————————————————————
Since we finished up with the game, I wanted to share this preview of my Clue game:
GREEN: Why would he invited her?
WHITE: I don’t know. Do you think he’s planning something?
GREEN: I bet it. What it is I don’t know.

GREEN heads follows Boddy into the Billiard Room, leaving WHITE alone in the Hall.
Well this was fun!

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Re: Let's Play Clue #14!

Post by BBP »

I kept a diary during the process because I noticed two years ago that over time you forget your thought progress and it's good to have that handy. I promised Black I'd show it to him after he asked me per PM if my question "Does Jamie have Dr Grapes" helped me, and I refused to answer.

Let's Play Cluedo #14 diary

Oh dear... I am not a native speaker and the prospect of writing these back stories doesn't cheer me up. The confinement has led me back to my roots as a composer and now I'm happily ducking back into the music I love, music of all ages.
One of the most amazing musical outputs is the Roman de Fauvel, a manuscript released around the 1300s, featuring a satiric verse about a horse named Fauvel (the letters of his name stand for the vices, and is also an orangy-browny colour that indicates vanity). Besides the verse and the gorgeous illuminations, there are around 160 pieces of music in it in all genres that were used at the time.
I could talk for hours on that so I'll refer you to Wikipedia and Youtube.

Cherry Ruby was plucked out of thin air. No further thought behind her. The same for the stapler.

I have just replayed Phantasmagoria (the 1995 Sierra game) and made a script out of the game. It had given me the idea of making a Phantasmagoria Cluedo, or at least use the delightully gothy locations. They don't get more goth than the Collectibles Room (which serves no purpose other than completely freaking you out with the most intense murder vision in the game). The Tea House in the same game is a charming romantic setting, it's kind of sad there isn't much more done with this. Somebody had fun designing all these.
Also there's a black onyx statuette that was shared influence for the cherub. The other influence is a cherub statue in the Rijksmuseum in Amsterdam which is pretty darn cute.

Lessons:
I have Mlle Du Lac, pistol. dressmaker's scissors, rat poison, parlor, and orangerie. 4 weapons, 2 rooms and 1 suspect.

Turn 1: Lemon - Pistol - Pond - I have pistol. I know JG showed either Lemon or Pond. Elrond doesn't have these.

Turn 2: Maple, Champagne, Orangerie - I have the champagne bottle and end up showing it. Jamie has neither Maple or Orangerie.

Turn 3: Ruby, Statuette, Billiard rm. I have neither but Shamrock has at least one.

Turn 4: I ask Sensei, poker, courtyard. Shamrock and Black don't have anything, but Elrond has the sensei.

Turn 5: Shamrock asks Lemon, Rat Poison, Parlor room. I have two of those and Jonathan Green shows the third, which must be Felicity Lemon. Since JG also showed in the first round it's possible he showed her then.

Turn 6: Black asks: Neither Elrond nor Jonathan have Vicar Stones, Holly or Priest Nook. Jamie shows.

Turn 7: Jonathan is intrigued by the question and asks Vicar stones, ice pick and priest nook. Jamie and I don't have either one of these, which means Jamie must have shown the Holly in turn 6.

Turn 8: Jamie asks for Meadowbrook, Dress scissors and collectibles. Since I have dress scissors I'm showing and I don't learn anything from this turn.

Turn 9: I ask for Dijon, Stapler, Kitchen. Shamrock has Dijon.

Turn 10: Sir Shamrock asks for Lady Silver, Runcible Spoon, Butler Pantry. Jonathan Green shows, which means Black and Elrond don't have any of these.

Turn 11: Black asks for Vicar Stones, Ice pick, Kitchen. Elrond shows, so not much to learn yet.

Turn 12: Jonathan Green asks Ruby, Ice Pick, Kitchen, or so I note in my book. When I check the forum a day later it turns out some mistakes were made and JG actually asked Ruby, Holly Berries and Parlor, this is stricken through.

Turn 13: Jonathan Green asks Ruby, Holly Berries and Parlor. I have Parlor. Jamie shows. Since we already found out at turn 7 that Jamie has the holly berries, he probably showed this as well.

Turn 14: Jamie asks Lord Grey, Cake knife, Ballroom. Black shows, Sir Shamrock doesn't have either one of these.

Turn 15: I ask again for three ones who haven't been used and I don't have in my hand. Pine, Curtain String, Portrait Room. Sir Shamrock has curtain string.

Turn 16: Sir Shamrock asks Mlle Du Lac, Fire Poker and Parlor. I have 2 and Elrond shows, which means he has the fire poker. This is fun to know since the only one who asked for the poker this far was I, and Elrond showed too, but not the poker.

Then it's question time. I get the mechanic but it is only helpful if I ask for something which was used in a suggestion, of which I have placed 1 of the cards in the hands of another person who doesn't show it.
The only one I find in my data that qualifies, is Jamie who has either Ruby or Holly Berries, so I ask if Jamie has Ruby - I have forgotten that I already deduced Jamie has the holly berries! Stupid...



Turn 17: Black asks Maple, Statuette, Portrait Room. Elrond shows.
Turn 18: Jonathan asks Pine, Billiard cue and Billiard room. Jamie shows.
Turn 19: Finally some learning: Jamie asks for Grapes, Kitchen Knife and Dining Room. Elrond shows, which means Sir Shamrock and Black have neither.

Jamie is a good player, as I found on earlier games with him. Like myself he's tending to ask for the things that haven't been asked yet.
You may notice there's a trend to copy guesses when we notice that there might be something to it for whatever reason - our last LetsPlay showed the crowding of Vermillion and Yukon - neither were the culprit. The actual culprit, Mr Mossman, was only suspected once in the game! Often in longer games the killer is the one that got overlooked. So I'm trying to make sure everything is guessed at least once.
Also, as the Vicar Stones in the Kitchen shows, repeating a guess can be disastrous.

Turn 20: I check up on my cards. I recall my suspecting Sir Shamrock gave me a furious Sir Shamrock suspecting my character and I don't fancy a repeat performance of that, so only my character Roman and Sunshine are the other unguessed ones. I go with Sunshine, Hat Pin, Solarium. Sir Shamrock shows the hat pin.

Turn 21: Sir Shamrock asks Sensei, Billiard cue, Billiard room. I know Elrond has the Sensei. The billiard items are not in Black's possession, not in mine either, and from the guessing pattern I assume (but do not know) that Sir Shamrock doesn't have these either.

One troublesome but occasionally rewarding way of playing Cluedo is inducing. Assuming that people don't usually ask only for cards they have, most of the suggestions will be based on cards people don't have. In this sense it's a problem that Elrond's not playing since I cannot use his turns to make assumptions.


Turn 23: Black asks Sunshine, Pistol, Cloak Room. Meaning Elrond has either Sunshine or Cloak Room.

I decide to count. So far, Black showed only 1 card, Jonathan showed 2, I showed 2, Jamie showed 3, Shamrock showed 5, Elrond showed 7. We all have a total of 7 cards...
First time Elrond showed was turn 4, he showed me Sensei.
Second time he showed Black either Ice pick, or kitchen. (But not Vicar Stones since he couldn't show that in turn 6).
Third time Elrond showed Sir Shamrock the fire poker since I have the other 2.
Fourth time is turn 4, Elrond showed either Sir Maple, Statuette or Portrait Room.
Turn 19: either Grapes, Kitchen Knife or Dining Room.
Turn 21: either Sensei or the billiard weapons, probably Sensei since he was confirmed to me already
Turn 22: either sunshine or cloak room.

Cards Elrond has are:
-Sensei Satuma
-Fire poker
-Either ice pick or kitchen
-Maple/Statuette/Portrait room
-Grapes/Kitchen Knife/Dining Room
-Sunshine/cloak room
This means 6 out of the 7 cards Elrond have already been seen.

Turn 23: Jamie asks Dijon - Ice pick - Portrait room. Sir Shamrock shows - I know he has Dijon.

Turn 24 - I intend to ask one of the unasked characters - this time my own Roman de Fauvel, and the tea room. I found the stapler has only been asked once - and almost ask it until I realize I am the one who asked the stapler.
Asking for the stapler again is like saying "I didn't get to see the stapler the first time I asked", so since I'm pretty wise on weapons but haven't found out about any locations other than mine, I ask for the champagne bottle. I have that, and Jonathan knows I have it.
****! I check,... what weapons do I have but haven't I showed? The pistol! Let's cast some mud into people's eyes!
I quickly edit my guess to Roman - Pistol - Tea House.

My realisation about asking the same thing more than once - Black asks about the Vicar Stones twice. Either he has it himself, or Sir Shamrock has it, or it's the murderer. Since we already learned from turn 6 that Jamie must've shown Holly, Black also asked the Pistol twice but I know I have that.
Jonathan Green didn't ask anything twice. Neither did Jamie or Sir Shamrock. So much for that idea.

Turn 25 - Sir Shamrock asks for Grapes, Holly Berries and Orangerie. I know I have Orangerie and Jamie has Holly Berries - since Jamie is first to show, I also learn that Black, Elrond and Jonathan don't have Grapes.

It's time to ask questions.
I finally realize that the questions probably say a lot about who hasn't got a certain card - nobody would ask if a person has a certain card if they have it themselves.

I read the questions again:
Jamie asked if Black has pistol. I know I have the pistol and I know that Jamie doesn't have it.
Black asks for Vicar Stones - I assume Black doesn't have him.
I ask if Jamie has Chrissy Ruby - he doesn't.
Shamrock asks if Jonathan Green has the rat poison - I know he doesn't.
Second round of questions:
Jonathan asks if Jamie has Lord Grey - I assume JG doesn't have him
Jamie asks if Elrond has the poker - I know the answer is yes.
I ask if Jamie has the billiard room - he doesn't.
Shamrock asks if I have the dressmaker's scissors. I know I do.

JG asks if Elrond has Dr Pine - I assume he doesn't have him
I ask if Jamie has Professor grapes:
in turn 19, Jamie asked for Grapes, kitchen knife and dining room. Elrond shows, which means that Black and Sir Shamrock (and I) don't have him.
In turn 25 Sir Shamrock asked Grapes, which means Elrond and Jonathan don't have him either. This means there's only one who could still have him - and now that ClueLover confirmed to me that Jamie does not have Professor Grapes, I know he must be the murderer.

This far, I know the killer and I know Jamie knows who the killer is. And I know that Jamie knows I know. All others could still be under the impression that Jamie has that card.
Then Black asks the same question I did! Meaning Black (who is also a good player) also knows the killer.
In this light it will be interesting to see which suspects they ask for. I am limited to Mlle Du Lac since that's my only suspect.


Funnily Shamrock is asking about the priest nook. I assume he doesn't have that.

Now that Black and Jamie also know who the killer is, I wonder who they'll name as suspects.


As the new day starts, I notice there is a message from Black in my PM, asking if the question helped me at all! I politely refuse to answer.

Turn 26:
Black asks for Pine - Ice Pick - Orangery. I have and show the orangery. Pine is held by either Shamrock or Black - I guess Black since he can know who the killer is. Ice pick is becoming suspicious since this can now only be owned by Shamrrock or Black.

Turn 27: Jonathan asks the exact same question!

Turn 28: Jamie asks Gray - Rat Poison - Parlor. I have two of those and show the rat poison. Gray has only been asked twice, and twice by Jamie - Jamie definitely knows the killer and I assume that when Jonathan asked if Jamie had Gray, the answer was yes.

Turn 29: I ask Du Lac (mine) - Ice pick (weapon suspect no 1) and Solarium. Jonathan Green shows the Solarium, which means neither Shamrock nor Black have the ice pick. Combined with the previous icepick questions, this must be the murder weapon!

Ice pick has been asked quite a few times already.
In turn 11 Black asked for Vicar Stones, Ice Pick and Kitchen. Elrond showed. From an earlier turn we learned that Elrond doesn't have the Vicar, so he must have the kitchen!

So one busy round. Murderer known, weapon known... The interesting thing about the weapon is that now everybody can know what the weapon is.
At this point we can learn a lot about the level of other players - the good ones may ask for a weapon they have themselves (I have plenty to choose from with the pistol and the bottle and all...)

Let's do the card counting thing, but with Sir Shamrock this time:
Sir Shamrock has:
-Ruby/Statuette/Billiard room (3)
-Vicar Stones/ Priest nook (7)
-Colonel Dijon (9)
-Curtain string (15)
-Hat pin (20)
-Tea House (24)

Turn 30: Sir Shamrock asks Silver, Champagne bottle, Ballroom. Black shows. Since I have the champagne bottle and we established in turn 10 that Black doesn't have Silver, Black must have the ballroom. He probably also showed it in turn 14.

Sir Shamrock also asked for Sister Silver again. I assume that means he wasn't showed Silver the first time in turn 10, meaning Jonathan Green showed either the butler's pantry or the runcible spoon. Neither has been asked since.

Browsing the list the priest nook is on my suspect list. Black asked it first, Jamie showed, so Elrond and Jonathan don't have it. Jonathan asked and Sir Shamrock showed, meaning Jamie doesn't have it either. Sir Shamrock asked if I had the priest nook at the third round of questions. Either Black or Sir Shamrock now has the priest nook but since both of them asked for it at one point... I don't have Sir Shamrock down as the wool before eyes type player. Black may be a bit sharper but even so, using a turn that early in the game... So I by now think the priest nook is the murder room. I'm fourth in the row, I sure hope I am not too late...
Sir Shamrock asks if Black has the Collectibles room. Collectibles has only been asked once (by Jamie, and I showed), I guess Shamrock doesn't have that one.

Turn 31 confuses me greatly! Black asks for Grey, Stapler, Billiard Room. Of the billiard room I know Jamie doesn't have it and Black doesn't have it but what knocks me off is the question for Grey. Black can also know who the murderer is, but I assumed that Jamie had Lord Grey because he asked for it in turn 28...

***
Wow until an hour ago I was convinced I was going to win with Priest Nook, but Black's suggestion was there to ask for the billiard room. And of course that turned out to be the murder room.

Le sigh. This doc is now a monument to my stupidity.

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Re: Let's Play Clue #14!

Post by ClueLover98 »

BBP wrote: Fri May 22, 2020 1:27 am Le sigh. This doc is now a monument to my stupidity.
I wouldn't say it was a document to your stupidity; I know that if I were in your position I would not have created such a journal (and thus probably have missed some of the insights you made).

For the players who are curious and/or spectators who didn't participate, I'll post what cards everybody had. You can read them if you highlight over them (so that if you don't want to be spoiled, you can easily avoid them).

=> Black:
Chrissy Ruby
Stapler
Collectibles Room
Priest Nook
Dr. Pine
Lord Gray
Ballroom

=> Elrond:
Sensei Satsuma
Sunshine
Fire Poker
Dining Room
Cake Knife
Kitchen
Portrait Room

=> Jonathan Green:
Roman de Fauvel
Solarium
Felicity Lemon
Mr. Meadow-Brook
Courtyard
Sir Shamrock
Butler's Pantry

=> Jamie:
Kitchen Knife
Ornamental Pond
Holly Berries
Lady Silver
Billiard Cue
Cloak Room
Runcible Spoon

=> BBP:
Mlle. du Lac
Dressmaker's Scissors
Champagne Bottle
Orangery
Rat Poison
Pistol
Parlor

=> Sir Shamrock:
Hatpin
Vicar Stones
Statuette
Tea House
Col. Dijon
Sir Maple
Curtain String


Anyways, congratulations once more to Black (and thank you to Jonathan Green for the confession)! Luckily we have another game of Clue in the upcoming future, so obviously join Jonathan Green's game! Thanks to everyone for playing and/or viewing!

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Re: Let's Play Clue #14!

Post by Jamie »

BBP - That document is great. It's very thorough and it helped you get very close to the solution.
Re: turn 28 I suggested Lord Grey even though I knew Black had it, to try and confuse somebody, anybody! I knew only you, Shamrock and JG could have Rat Poison and the Parlour, and I took a 2/3 chance that you or Shamrock would have one of them. If not, Black would show me Grey which would do nothing for me, except mean that only JG could have the Poison & Parlour and I would base my next question on one of those.

In the last round of asking about cards I was really torn between trying to confirm my suspicions about certain locations: you and the Orangery, Black and the Priest Nook, or asking about a room that I had(which hadn't been mentioned since turn #1) to try and throw people off on a wild goose chase.

I'm gutted that Sunshine wasn't the murderer, I had a great confession lined up! But I may try and work it into something in the future :wink:

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Re: Let's Play Clue #14!

Post by BBP »

Oh by all means post it! (I'm happy I didn't have to write any, not my forte)

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Re: Let's Play Clue #14!

Post by Sir Shamrock »

BBP wrote: Fri May 22, 2020 1:27 am I don't have Sir Shamrock down as the wool before eyes type player.
That's fair :lol: . Seeing this complex dairy makes me feel silly. My strategy boils down to taking nothing seriously at all. Just saying suggestions that are interesting. To be honest, I know I'm not gonna win with you guys, so might as well have a good time with it :D. Sorry if that threw off any of your guy's strategies. Anyway this was a great game. Thank you ClueLover98, excellent writing. Had a good time. Do you want us to post some character epilogues or nah?

And BBP, that part about my character immediately suggesting your character is spot on. Maybe that's why no one suggested Sir Shamrock :lol:

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Re: Let's Play Clue #14!

Post by BBP »

:) If there's one thing that always threw me off whenever I played Clue: Murder At Boddy Mansion, it was that on the easier levels, the AI asks "stupid" questions, like asking for a card they were just shown.

But here is the main strategy:

-Also write down what cards your opponents don't have;
-Apply new information to earlier turns.

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Re: Let's Play Clue #14!

Post by ClueLover98 »

Sir Shamrock wrote: Fri May 22, 2020 7:15 am
BBP wrote: Fri May 22, 2020 1:27 am I don't have Sir Shamrock down as the wool before eyes type player.
That's fair :lol: . Seeing this complex dairy makes me feel silly. My strategy boils down to taking nothing seriously at all. Just saying suggestions that are interesting. To be honest, I know I'm not gonna win with you guys, so might as well have a good time with it :D. Sorry if that threw off any of your guy's strategies. Anyway this was a great game. Thank you ClueLover98, excellent writing. Had a good time. Do you want us to post some character epilogues or nah?

And BBP, that part about my character immediately suggesting your character is spot on. Maybe that's why no one suggested Sir Shamrock :lol:
Character epilogues would be fun, but I'm not forcing anyone to do them as the mystery has already been solved. If you want to, feel free to go ahead!

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Re: Let's Play Clue #14!

Post by Black »

After the murder, Sir Maple inherited his mother's estate, in a way, his mother's death was a blessing, not because he got to inherit a vast estate and an endless supply of cash but all of his bad habits are a thing of the past. Sure he likes to womanize, gamble and drink but he now knows where to draw the line. In fact, he has finally decided to settle down, find a beautiful wife, start a family, and run his own company - he isn't as stupid as people might think he is. He is also generous letting his cousin, Chrissy move in too, giving her an allowance to fulfill any whim she has but also making sure she doesn't make the same mistakes he did.

Miles Meadow-Brook still worked as the family loyal, even owning shares in Sir Maple's company which is a big hit, the lawyer is rich in his own right. He loves his job but not his wife, he grows weary of her overspending and he has decided to begin divorce proceedings. One summer, Miles received an invitation to attend a summer garden party at a client's manor house, he was going to take the opportunity to talk to the client in private.

"A summer garden party at Tudor Mansion, sure I'll go, I mean what's the worst that could happen," He thought to himself... "It's not like I'm going to get myself murdered right..."

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Re: Let's Play Clue #14!

Post by Sir Shamrock »

Sir Shamrock was largely unaffected by what had just happened. He picked up the Cake Knife and whispered to himself, "Hahaha, I finally get to use this.". He cut himself a slice of cake. It was pretty good. "This is all I wanted.". After packing up his things and taking some food to go, he turned around and said his goodbyes. "Goodbye Lady Silver, it was a pleasure working with you."

"Ok bye." Lady Silver hastily replied. She had finally gotten what she had always wanted, Maple out of the way. But she still empty inside. Could it be that while she was focusing on everything the Marchioness did, she forgot to learn about herself? Maybe if she worked on being a better person, she will be more well loved and feel satisfied with life? Perhaps the happiness she craved was inside her all along? Nah. More envy was the way to go. She never was to keen on her other neighbor Dr. Black. "What does his parties have that mine don't?"

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