Revolver Vs. Pistol

Murder by Death · Forensics Supervisor Joined: 09 Oct 2009 Posts: 918

So the 1949 games all introduced a gun which is clearly depicted a semi-automatic pistol, but labeled it as a revolver. It remained that way until the 1963 US version changed it to an actual revolver (though the token did not change until 1972). The UK edition of course did not change until 1996. But Pratt's 1944 patent clearly shows an actual revolver.

So what happened? Wikipedia indicates that following WWII the semi-automatic pistol became the weapon of choice in most countries' militaries, so too I imagine it captured the popular interest as well. But if that is the case, why didn't Waddingtons just change the name from Revolver to Pistol, if they were going to depict and actual pistol? And if not Waddingtons, then why not Parker Brothers who took it upon themselves to change the Dagger to a Knife (for no good reason I can tell) and Spanner to Wrench (O.K. so that one was the same thing, just a different name). The US version was the perfect opportunity to get it right, but didn't.

Can anybody figure that one out? Were Revolver and Pistol interchangeable in the late 40s? Seems unlikely. The dictionary defines "revolver" as a type of "pistol", but a "revolver" must have a revolving chamber. So I am at a loss as to why they would make and perpetuate such a blatant mistake in the first place. It's not like there was any tradition to adhere to at that point, unlike today after 60 years of the name "revolver" being a part of Cluedo, regardless of how it was depicted.

ON A SIDE NOTE: Does anybody know what kind of pistol is depicted in the 1949-1996 UK edition? Since it is a real photograph, it must have been a model that existed at that time. The token more or less matches the card up until the 1960s or 70s Cluedo edition which then appears to copy the Walther PPK – perhaps the James Bond influence?
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Murder by Death · Forensics Supervisor Joined: 09 Oct 2009 Posts: 918

Anyone know when the Black Revolver became silver in the US & UK editions? Was it ever black in the US editions?

Was it originally just some black paint over the pewter token?

Also, the knife appears to have been painted black in some editions. Or, was that just corrosion from age?
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fendue · Posted: Sat Dec 12, 2009 3:25 pm Post subject:

I have the 1949, 1963 and 1972 editions and none of the weapons are black.
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cacums · Posted: Sat Dec 12, 2009 3:26 pm Post subject:

The revolver was painted black.
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Death has its advantages...

Murder by Death · Forensics Supervisor Joined: 09 Oct 2009 Posts: 918

Obviously the reinvention game has reintroduced the pistol in place of the revolver, including a silencer – in some sense correcting the original discrepancy between the original token and the name.

I'm not really happy about the name change, per se. However, there is a certain amount of legitimacy to it since the token and artwork depicted a pistol for over 13 years in the US and 47 years in the UK, and the token only for another decade in the US.

The decision to use a pepperbox revolver by Parker Bros. has always struck me as odd, other than it just seemed appropriately creepy for the mood of the 1972 edition. But then it stuck for every edition since then.

But today, I just gained new found respect for one aspect of the reinvention pistol: the silencer.

Aside form the major problem in Clue of having to deduce the weapon when the wound would obviously identify it, unless the revolver is used to bludgeon instead of shoot, a gun is going to make a lot of noise, so that all the other guests would come running before the victim could be dragged to the cellar stairs.

The silencer solves that problem. So whether you prefer a pistol or a revolver, a silencer could be used with either (depending on model) and solves just one more problem with Clue's internal logic. Except, a silencer can't be used with the classic pepperbox revolver introduced in the 1972 game, which I never really liked that much to begin with.

So give me a classic single barrel revolver and a suppressor and I'll show you a classic Clue murder that doesn't bring the guests running.
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Michael · Posted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 8:47 am Post subject:

It was a dark and stormy night...

The murderer timed the gunshot just right to coincide with the thunder...
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munitzer · Can Opener Joined: 27 Jul 2007 Posts: 1610

I think the name on the card should be changed for the weapon pictured. With the revolver, I feel that that is more appropriate for the country estate milieu of Master Detective or classic Clue. I think that the switch to the pistol with the silencer was a smart revision for Clue Reinvention. To me, having a silencer makes the most sense.

The weapon pictured should match its name. If it's a kitchen knife, call it a knife. If it's an ornamental dagger, call it a dagger. I don't think that tradition should outweigh logic. However, there should be consistency. Knives and daggers seem more interchangable than revolvers and pistols.

Since the suspects are the ones solving the crime and none of them are professional detectives, it would make sense for Mrs. Peacock to pick up a dagger and call it a knife. It would make sense for Miss Scarlet to pick up a pistol and call it a revolver or vice versa. The one person I'd assume would be excluded from making that mistake would be Colonel Mustard.

I have never liked the pepperbox revolver. It's always looked ridiculous and bulky. However, I recently looked up a video on youtube with someone shooting a relatively small pepperbox revolver. Even though he was outside, it made a rather dull (to steal a phrase from Death on the Nile) popping noise like a champagne bottle.

The murderer could also have used a pillow or stole (again, I'm stealing from Death on the Nile) as an impromptu silencer. That could add a clue, i.e. a missing pillow from the divan in the ballroom.
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CluedoKid · Posted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 11:35 am Post subject:

Actually, I think that an ornamental dagger could be called a knife, but not visa versa. The revolver/pistol mistake is a little harder to get past, but informally, I've seen instances with the term "revolver" applied to any handheld automatic, athough, I think the term "pistol" seems more appropriate to be used interchangably.
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Murder by Death · Forensics Supervisor Joined: 09 Oct 2009 Posts: 918

Green · Junior Detective Joined: 05 Oct 2007 Posts: 728

All of this talk reminds of the movie. It is specifically set in the United States, but for the most part, the knife is referred to as "the dagger." The revolver is called "the gun" for most of the film. I think the idea of the characters mislabeling the weapons is a fun one. I can see Colonel Mustard standing there rolling his eyes as they call the dagger a "knife," but getting upset and insisting on fixing the label "gun" to the appropriate "revolver" (or "pistol").

As for the real-world problem... who knows? I think it's likely that Pratt wanted a revolver, since that is depicted in the patent, and then the company's artwork accidentally used a pistol instead.
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Murder by Death · Forensics Supervisor Joined: 09 Oct 2009 Posts: 918

Murder by Death · Forensics Supervisor Joined: 09 Oct 2009 Posts: 918

I just noticed that the Revolver in the Limited Gift Edition is labeled "Pistol"!

Now this was 1997, long before Hasbro started modernizing things. Granted a semi-automatic pistol has been depicted as the revolver for several decades in various editions, but it was always labeled "Revolver". I think this may be the first instance of changing the name of the gun to "Pistol" ever. It's also pretty ironic considering that Cluedo had just changed to depicting an actual revolver only the year before.

I think if I had bought this in 1997, I would have been disappointed that the "Revolver" card was mislabeled, and would have been a bit confused about the semi-automatic pistol had I not known about the pre-1972 editions, or the existence of Cluedo – does the LGE explain this change at all in the included documentation? I see The Story of Clue says "This special version of CLUE is authentic in every detail, featuring all the suspects, rooms and weapons, you've come to love since childhood." – except the Pistol is all wrong!

Has any other English edition ever called the Revolver a "Pistol" before or since, until DTS added a silencer?
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Murder by Death · Forensics Supervisor Joined: 09 Oct 2009 Posts: 918

Anybody know when the UK Cluedo Revolver (pistol) token changed?

In 1949 the black-painted token closely matched the card depicting a Dreyse M1907 (the card of course did not change until 1996).

However, at some point the token changed to a black-painted Walther PPK, then to an unpainted version, followed by a gold-toned version, which I think survived until 1996 when it changed to the pepperbox revolver.

Anybody know what years these changes took place? Did they correspond to the edition changes in 1965, '72, and '83?

As with the US 50's edition knife, it is frustrating that the UK editions changed the token but never updated the card.
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